tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post1977910090839161710..comments2016-07-29T23:11:47.088-07:00Comments on Complement.Inversion.Etc: Top of the Un-Pops: Composer RankingsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-53397317960419737842009-07-12T17:43:08.752-07:002009-07-12T17:43:08.752-07:00Zapgun: Thanks for the comment, forgot to reply wh...Zapgun: Thanks for the comment, forgot to reply when you posted it sorry.<br /><br />Agreed about Nunes, forgot about him, Chowning however is more of an electronic composer so I didn't consider him (not a value judgement btw, he is a very important figure arguably, just not in an acoustic context.)<br /><br />Your site looks good btw, I have a passing interest in architecture so I'll look at it more closely soon. Good luck with it.E.L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02232306072911100828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-27119986800944983562009-07-02T05:34:44.966-07:002009-07-02T05:34:44.966-07:00Just to mention that we pick your ranking idea to ...Just to mention that we pick your ranking idea to do something similar with architects in our zapgun.pt website on the freshly new blog section.<br />Our relation with music don't go further than that one of the listener point of view. We do like many composers on it but we didn't know the majority of the names. So, for us, it's an excellent data base to engross our discography and knowledge. <br />Concerning your list, we do miss the absence of John Chowning and Emmanuel Nunes on it, but this is just for matters of 'stepfriendship'. Otherwise, we did not include Frank Zappa on this rank because Zappa will open the field to many others linked with some kind of sub-pop culture scene.<br />Many thanksZapGunnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-20917933362560168052009-04-10T20:03:00.000-07:002009-04-10T20:03:00.000-07:00Anon: No right or wrong way of making such a list ...Anon: No right or wrong way of making such a list as per my experience of thinking it through, you might be right about Rutter vs Zappa (sounds like a legal precedent), however as I said in the post I can't get around my own subjective position (I quite like Zappa's music in general, not so with Rutter's, offence to the man intended, I think Zappa deserves a mention, my opinion.)<BR/><BR/>Re the older composers, I thought I would start with the 20th century onwards, including composers born in the previous century rather than start post WWII or whatever, if you want to narrow down the results I suppose you'll just have to make your own sub-list as Tom did re some of top living composers (a database with filters would be nice, one day perhaps, although that could be taking things too far who knows)<BR/><BR/>Re Kurtag and Saariaho, the former surprises me most, he is one of my favourite composers, I think he is quite an important figure (but then I just revealed my bias so perhaps I would think that.)<BR/><BR/>I tried to buy the score to Omaggio a Luigi Nono but it's not available apparently (I had it on order for about a month), I swapped the order earlier for Officium Breve, hopefully that is in print but who knows, i'll have to wait and see. <BR/><BR/>Annoying that his stuff isn't more available, my local music library doesn't have much, and one score listed in their records appears to have gone missing or been stolen.<BR/><BR/>On the plus side his scores are well designed, I like the muted brown colour with that interesting russian modernist looking typeface (that's obviously the most important thing about a score :-/E.L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02232306072911100828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-38601738623531641882009-04-10T08:01:00.000-07:002009-04-10T08:01:00.000-07:00Many tough calls... for example, I think Rutter wo...Many tough calls... for example, I think Rutter would make much more sense to include on the list than Zappa (which is not to say I wouldn't rather eat nails than listen to a Rutter piece!). He's primarily known and searched-for because of his notated concert music; Zappa's definitely not. <BR/><BR/>Many surprises here; pleasantly surprised to see Terry Riley & La Monte Young higher than I expected; puzzled to see Kurtag & Saariaho so low. I wonder if a later date-cutoff might make it more useful? (I don't know how much we get out of comparing Puccini, Mahler, Ravel to this group.) But I think this is a really interesting ranking and I hope you keep doing more. Thanks!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-41074353810836722132009-04-02T07:04:00.000-07:002009-04-02T07:04:00.000-07:00Hmm, I might include Tavener I suppose and leave i...Hmm, I might include Tavener I suppose and leave it at that.<BR/><BR/>Re Glass and Reich, i'm not being critical by saying they are not really classical composers, or suggesting they have expanded the definition, it just seems to be the case (personally I am not really a Glass fan although I like a couple of short pieces I have heard, but I do like quite a bit of Reich's stuff, not easy to categorise though, like Zappa, I think Reich quite liked that about his music IIRC)E.L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02232306072911100828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-44576583508328949592009-04-01T19:20:00.000-07:002009-04-01T19:20:00.000-07:00Well, I think Tavener should be included, although...Well, I think Tavener should be included, although I've no idea where he'd place. <BR/><BR/>If you say yourself that Glass and Reich aren't "really classical composers" (and I kind of agree), doesn't Tavener qualify by being intensely tied to (and obsessed with) tradition?<BR/><BR/>This can quickly get nit-picky, though, plainly enough.<BR/><BR/>I'm also surprised Takemitsu isn't more heavily researched.Dannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-7848212125899791592009-04-01T14:04:00.000-07:002009-04-01T14:04:00.000-07:00Ok Einaudi has been added, as I said I just can't ...Ok Einaudi has been added, as I said I just can't add Jenkins, even if I wanted to, I just can't.<BR/><BR/>Re Rutter, I didn't even think about him, perhaps john Tavener should be included but I don't know, a line has to be drawn somewhere and primarily this survey is looking at 'important' composers and whether the discourse about music matches the 'facts' (regards what is or is not popular or accessible etc.)<BR/><BR/>I tried changing wikirank to french but it didn't seem to work, would be interested to compare the English language results with the other main ones (where classical music is discussed) French, German, Spanish and perhaps Japanese and Mandarin for starters (not sure what sort of Chinese wiki exists though.)E.L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02232306072911100828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-23284295258270148832009-04-01T13:44:00.000-07:002009-04-01T13:44:00.000-07:00I'm just pleased to see that you've left out John ...I'm just pleased to see that you've left out John Rutter.Stuarthttp://stuartestell.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-16593493786360416962009-04-01T07:17:00.000-07:002009-04-01T07:17:00.000-07:00I'll add Einaudi but not Jenkins, I just can't (*s...I'll add Einaudi but not Jenkins, I just can't (*shudder)E.L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02232306072911100828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-12017349701431478882009-04-01T07:13:00.000-07:002009-04-01T07:13:00.000-07:00Agreed about Zappa, not much of his traffic will b...Agreed about Zappa, not much of his traffic will be directly related to his contemporary/classical music but shouldn't exclude him. Also other composers are better known as writers and/or conductors etc. <BR/><BR/>Re the top living composers (from the top 60) worth noting that Stockhausen, Ligeti and Xenakis didn't die that long ago and come surprisingly high in the list (if you believe the populist hype about the non 'accessible' nature of 'avant-garde' music.)<BR/><BR/>It would read... 1. Glass 2. Reich 3. Part 4. Stockhausen 5. Ligeti 6. Xenakis 7. Boulez 8. Riley 9. La Monte Young 10. Penderecki 11. John Adams 12. Tan Dun 13. Gorecki 14. Elliott Carter<BR/><BR/>Also worth considering that minimalists are not really classical composers as such (Reich and Glass particularly), they are crossover artists more or less, they widened the definition of classical music and remain somewhat controversial because of it(Glass and Reich having their own ensembles etc and not generally writing for traditional groupings like string quartets, wind quintets, orchestras etc).<BR/><BR/>I actually think the results show that the supposedly 'difficult' (to listen to) or 'avant-garde' music of the post-war period is in good health, it should be performed more (though much of it is difficult to play, no argument there.)<BR/><BR/>Other surprises, how high Rachmaninoff comes in the list, and how low Takemitsu is (Rachmaninoff above Stravinsky?, I suppose he was a famous pianist too and his music has been in popular films etc.)<BR/><BR/>It should of course be noted that these results are only based on English language wiki pages, presumably in other languages the results would be different (that would be an interesting comparison actually.)E.L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/02232306072911100828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-7888591356280590542009-04-01T06:57:00.000-07:002009-04-01T06:57:00.000-07:00Two more unfortunately legitimate composers for yo...Two more unfortunately legitimate composers for you:<BR/><BR/>Ludovico Einaudi was viewed 7,514 times in the last 30 days.<BR/><BR/>Karl Jenkins was viewed 6,774 times in the last 30 days.tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17355936762675777999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-623231205866805196.post-27904458744164606882009-04-01T04:31:00.000-07:002009-04-01T04:31:00.000-07:00So of the living composers we have 1. Glass. 2. Re...So of the living composers we have 1. Glass. 2. Reich. 3. Part. 4. Boulez. 5. Riley. 6. La Monte Young. 7. Penderecki. 8. John Adams. 9. Tan Dun. 10. Gorecki.<BR/><BR/>Looks like the minimalists are doing predictably good. They are also surprisingly old (most born around the 1935-1937 mark). Tan Dun is easily the youngest (and he's best known as a film composer now).<BR/><BR/><BR/>I think it's legitimate to include Zappa in the list, though I doubt many people go to his page based on his symphonic compositions.tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17355936762675777999noreply@blogger.com